Book 2 – Page 112

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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Pointyleaf » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:24 pm

ManaCaster wrote:This is an awfully bold move. Even previously neutral casters are going to be very upset if Gobwin Knob leaves a non-caster force in the Magic Kingdom.

If he has to stack the bodies up, how is he going to bring all 270 of them to their feet? Is he planning to expand that fortress later?


Corpses poof if they aren't moved each turn, right?

So all you need is a few troops on each side of the portal. Shuffle them back and forth once per turn, and leave 'em "stacked up like cordwood". You can store 'em in Spacerock or the MK, as you like. There's space, stacked like that.

Add water to reconstitute.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:42 pm

Oh... Snap.

Looks like he's about to invade MK, or possibly set up some sort of guardhouse at his portal in MK. Either way, he is busting up MK in a big way.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:46 pm

Pointyleaf wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:This is an awfully bold move. Even previously neutral casters are going to be very upset if Gobwin Knob leaves a non-caster force in the Magic Kingdom.

If he has to stack the bodies up, how is he going to bring all 270 of them to their feet? Is he planning to expand that fortress later?


Corpses poof if they aren't moved each turn, right?

So all you need is a few troops on each side of the portal. Shuffle them back and forth once per turn, and leave 'em "stacked up like cordwood". You can store 'em in Spacerock or the MK, as you like. There's space, stacked like that.

Add water to reconstitute.

What would be the point of saving them like that before decryption though? They don't decay like uncroaked, and they don't have an upkeep at all, so there isn't really any disadvantage to uncroaking them. The only serious possibility with this is that he has a.... oh shit. He has a storehouse of bodies in MK, keeps them fresh by moving them back and forth through a portal like you suggested, then when he wants to attack a side, just has sizemore dig a tunnel to their portal, set up a similar structure around it, send casters through with bodies (along with him) and begin the decryption. He'd basically be able to initiate a capital strike on ANYONE from anywhere, unless they start closing their portals, which leaves them without access to MK. This could be a gambit for Charlie. Getting to him is troublesome, but if he can drop a full army right in the middle of his city....
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby teratorn » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:57 pm

I think it's simpler than what is being discussed. Parson just made sure he'll survive next turn. He will be safe in the MK even if Charlie takes the city. In fact with this setting there's no major gain to be made by attacking Jetstone next turn.

Taking the MK seems unlikely, they can always make golem armies, but this will make them uneasy. Using portals to attack cities seems unwise, a couple of archers would be enough to guard them from the other side, Parson had Wanda secure Jetstone Portal before he used it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby jkosta » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:10 pm

Pointyleaf wrote:
Venthus wrote:And I suspect something bad is going to go down-- once again, Sizemore looks conflicted in panel 1, probably about his orders...


Interesting observations for this update:

1) There seems to be a lot more history to Wanda and Jack than we know about. Is this history a conflict, a friendly game, or an alliance?


Wanda, Jack, and Marie were the only ones who earnestly gave Jillian any support. I suspect that it's nuance in their notion of love and an extension of court philosophizing mostly, rather than something new development we haven't heard about. Jack would have called it a game, and I am guessing that Wanda is just using his word for it here.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Lipkin » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:09 pm

Pointyleaf wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:This is an awfully bold move. Even previously neutral casters are going to be very upset if Gobwin Knob leaves a non-caster force in the Magic Kingdom.

If he has to stack the bodies up, how is he going to bring all 270 of them to their feet? Is he planning to expand that fortress later?


Corpses poof if they aren't moved each turn, right?

So all you need is a few troops on each side of the portal. Shuffle them back and forth once per turn, and leave 'em "stacked up like cordwood". You can store 'em in Spacerock or the MK, as you like. There's space, stacked like that.

Add water to reconstitute.

Pretty sure corpses don't need to be moved every turn. They only need to be moved once, before they depop, and then they are considered claimed trophies. I think they still decay at that point, but they don't vanish.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby 0beron » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:36 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
0beron wrote:To me, the fact that he came up with this plan just after talking about Jack suggests that he was gonna try to save Jack without Decryption, but how would bringing his body to the MK accomplish that?
If Jack is no longer a caster when he's decrypted, he can't pass through into the Magic Kingdom any more - he's just a normal infantry. Jack would be trapped where he's raised. When Parson takes that into consideration, he realizes he's got to move Jack's body somewhere 'safe' first, which opens up a whole lot of new possibilities once he considers using the same tactic on regular units.

Well if decrypted casters still become infantry like uncroaked, then the question of how to protect him is really the least of Jack's problems. And at any rate, I was getting at the fact that from how I read it, Parson is gonna try to save Jack WITHOUT Decrypting him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Lipkin » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:49 pm

0beron wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:
0beron wrote:To me, the fact that he came up with this plan just after talking about Jack suggests that he was gonna try to save Jack without Decryption, but how would bringing his body to the MK accomplish that?
If Jack is no longer a caster when he's decrypted, he can't pass through into the Magic Kingdom any more - he's just a normal infantry. Jack would be trapped where he's raised. When Parson takes that into consideration, he realizes he's got to move Jack's body somewhere 'safe' first, which opens up a whole lot of new possibilities once he considers using the same tactic on regular units.

Well if decrypted casters still become infantry like uncroaked, then the question of how to protect him is really the least of Jack's problems. And at any rate, I was getting at the fact that from how I read it, Parson is gonna try to save Jack WITHOUT Decrypting him.

I doubt it.

1. Wanda is right there with Jack this update, and seems intent on decrypting him.
2. No drama in Jack pointlessly dying, and then being returned to life with no consequences.
3. Decrypted Jack is a more interesting story function.

Jack was one of my favorites too, but I think we'll see him decrypted next update.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Free Radical » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:30 pm

Kind of a mad idea.. but what would happen if Parson decided to raze Spacerock? It seems to me there's a pretty good chance it would send Gobwin Knob's capital back to Gobwin Knob. (Or possibly Unaroyal, but obviously Parson would know the rules on this before he tried it.)

If it does, and Sizemore had by then placed another pyramid around the Gobwin Knob portal, Parson could safely take all the bodies through the tunnel to Gobwin Knob and have them mass decrypted there. It would eliminate the need to have Stanley fly out to Spacerock and back, and also put Parson and all the casters safely back in Gobwin Knob away from a likely counter-strike by Charlie (or defending Stanley and the capital if the counter-strike would have been aimed at him).

Either way, I don't think Spacerock itself has enough value to Gobwin Knob at the moment to be worth trying to hold if it's possible to retreat most of his army straight home. The main point of taking it was to decapitate Jetstone and that failed. It's way, way out on the edge of their territory, and Charlie just announced himself as extremely hostile, so they're probably not going to want to chase Jetstone yet further and spread their forces even thinner any time soon. The city simply isn't worth holding if they can instead consolidate their forces in the heart of their strength.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Venthus » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:33 pm

Lipkin wrote:1. Wanda is right there with Jack this update, and seems intent on decrypting him.
2. No drama in Jack pointlessly dying, and then being returned to life with no consequences.
3. Decrypted Jack is a more interesting story function.


Except, as far as I can recall, a true resurrection is unheard of in Erfworld-- depending on how it's done, it could arguably be considered an applied case of retconjuration. Unleashing/Confirming the viability of a theoretical, volatile and powerful branch of magic seems rather interesting to me.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Finn MacCool » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:03 pm

Vreejack wrote:There were "almost three hundred" croaked units in Spacerock. "Three dozen" (36) will remain there as a garrison, so that leaves over 260 units for the Magic Kingdom Expeditionary Force (MKEF): 240 troopers, fifteen knights, three or four warlords, five casters, and Lord Hamster.

more like thirty(-ish) knights.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby BakaGrappler » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:23 pm

Hooo-leeeee-shiiiiiiiii-t.

And in panel 10, we have the monument to Key Lime Pie.

Please. please, please, please let Artemis be Decrypted on the Erf side of the portal. I really want her to play a bigger part in the story than just a garrison unit.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby LordAcme » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:11 pm

Free Radical wrote:Kind of a mad idea.. but what would happen if Parson decided to raze Spacerock? It seems to me there's a pretty good chance it would send Gobwin Knob's capital back to Gobwin Knob. (Or possibly Unaroyal, but obviously Parson would know the rules on this before he tried it.)

If it does, and Sizemore had by then placed another pyramid around the Gobwin Knob portal, Parson could safely take all the bodies through the tunnel to Gobwin Knob and have them mass decrypted there. It would eliminate the need to have Stanley fly out to Spacerock and back, and also put Parson and all the casters safely back in Gobwin Knob away from a likely counter-strike by Charlie (or defending Stanley and the capital if the counter-strike would have been aimed at him).

Either way, I don't think Spacerock itself has enough value to Gobwin Knob at the moment to be worth trying to hold if it's possible to retreat most of his army straight home. The main point of taking it was to decapitate Jetstone and that failed. It's way, way out on the edge of their territory, and Charlie just announced himself as extremely hostile, so they're probably not going to want to chase Jetstone yet further and spread their forces even thinner any time soon. The city simply isn't worth holding if they can instead consolidate their forces in the heart of their strength.


Very nice. I'd posted something of the same plan - the pyramid is actually a strategic retreat before changing the capital back to GK - but then realized Stanley would still have to travel there to sit on the throne, so I deleted my post.

I like the thought that razing the capital deliberately might force a capital change to another city, probably of Stanley's choice. If possible, it accounts for everything Parson's doing.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby wih » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:11 pm

Wasn't there a Dick Tracy-type Lookamancer siding with the Carnies? I imagine he'll come back into play to tell the Carnies what's behind the pyramid.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Oreo2483 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:42 pm

I personally think it has nothing to do with invading other portals or shipping bodies to different gobwin knob cities.

Remember, there are alot of casters who want to keep the MK neutral, so if he tried that hed have almost the whole MK against him and he doesnt need another war front in addition to charlie and the jetstone alliance.

no i think this is much more direct. He simply wants to have personal power on the MK side of the portal. Think about it. In the MK he is basically powerless and at the whims of the individual factions in the MK, whether it be the carnies, the thinkamancers or the predicatomancers. It is a cripling weakness that almost cost him the battle against jetsone cause the thinkamancers were arguing about whether or not to let him do his job. He only got out of it by promising the thinkamancers to return and hear their explanations. I hthink what hes trying to do is return with a show of force. let them know he isnt their puppet, and negotiate with them from a position of strength.

So, if he decrypts a personal army in the MK. He would then have a strong hand with which to bargain with the various groups who want to control him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Whispri » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:16 am

Free Radical wrote:Kind of a mad idea.. but what would happen if Parson decided to raze Spacerock? It seems to me there's a pretty good chance it would send Gobwin Knob's capital back to Gobwin Knob. (Or possibly Unaroyal, but obviously Parson would know the rules on this before he tried it.)

If it does, and Sizemore had by then placed another pyramid around the Gobwin Knob portal, Parson could safely take all the bodies through the tunnel to Gobwin Knob and have them mass decrypted there. It would eliminate the need to have Stanley fly out to Spacerock and back, and also put Parson and all the casters safely back in Gobwin Knob away from a likely counter-strike by Charlie (or defending Stanley and the capital if the counter-strike would have been aimed at him).

Either way, I don't think Spacerock itself has enough value to Gobwin Knob at the moment to be worth trying to hold if it's possible to retreat most of his army straight home. The main point of taking it was to decapitate Jetstone and that failed. It's way, way out on the edge of their territory, and Charlie just announced himself as extremely hostile, so they're probably not going to want to chase Jetstone yet further and spread their forces even thinner any time soon. The city simply isn't worth holding if they can instead consolidate their forces in the heart of their strength.

If they don't finish things with Jetstone, the RCC II will remain intact. If the RCC II remains intact, they'll face a massive invasion as soon as Jetstone can organise it. They'd end up having to reinvade Jetstone's territory, fighting battles over the Sites of Cities they'd already taken. Spacerock being the Capital is indeed a serious problem that needs solving, but abandoning it just leads to more problems in the long run. And the City's high level, so it's hardly worthless.

As far as the current defences go BTW, they may be low in numbers of soldiers, but they could have as many as five Casters to defend it from any passing Archon Swarms, including Wanda to Decrypt the dead. I don't think Charlie'd risk it. An attack on Gobwin Knob is more of a worry... but we can at least say that Charlie didn't want this to happen. So I don't think he's in a position to kill Stanley on the morrow. Assassination on his trip to Spacerock is what I'd fear.
Last edited by Whispri on Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby The Bushranger » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:23 am

splexis wrote:It is strange to me that all the posts are about Hamstard attacking the MK. The massing of the corpses there does something to Spacerock: makes it seem weakly defended. To me it looks more like he's setting Charlie (or his pawns) up for a straight forwArd bait and switch a la fully armed and operational battle-station.

Charlie: Open up, or I'll huff and I'll puff
Parson: No one here but us chickens
Charlie: I have you now
Parson: Yes, about that...


This one's my guess: Parson wants Charlie to see a virtually undefended Spacerock, with a Parson plum for the picking, only having Wanda for backup, with Sizemore on the MK side of the portal, inside the pyramid.

Charlie attacks, Sizemore starts chucking bodies through the portal, Wanda Decrypts them as they come through.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby BakaGrappler » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:00 am

This particular tactic was one that I had considered briefly, but had dismissed completely out of hand. Creating a defensive garrison in the MK.

At first, I thoughts, "You know, having Sizemore make a barred door or any other such defensive structures in front of their portal would just antagonize the MK, and since Parson can't man the defenses, it would only take a single scroll of dirtamancy to bring the whole thing down and he'd still be attacked from the MK without warning. Nope, ignoring the MK like usual and let them wallow in neutrality is the best thing."

I had completely ignored the idea of combining a secured portal entry with the Decrypting of troops on the other side because of the insanity of the "Invade the MK, kill the casters, and create a zombie apocalypse style tidal wave effect using the Arkenpliers to conquer all casters in the world! MWA-HAHAHA!" plan. And also I thought the biggest threat in Parson's mind right now would be "What if Jetstone comes back now that the Inferno is gone?" But it seems Parson sees the MK and those within as the real threat. After all, what if two dozen master class Thinkamancers come into Spacerock as a strike team to kidnap Parson again? Or the Carnymancers turn the entire MK into a lynchmob? Considering what happened, and that happening kept Parson from getting where he needed to, when he needed to... yeah, the MK is Parson's biggest threat right now.

But now, this creates an actual well manned outpost in the MK to prevent the Carnymancers and ANYONE ELSE Charlie hires to sweep in through his door and attack his city from behind. Parson just proved it can be done, so now Charlie knows it's an option. And no less than 2 factions in the MK are hunting for Parson. And with the "no door" set up of the defenses Sizemore is creating, no one can come in without the Dirtamancer's say so, and Parson's invitation.

I think the technical term for this sort of set up, would be a Way-Castle. And now Parson has an army at his back whenever he needs to move from one Portal to another. Say for Diplomatic meetings?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby TedPro » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:04 am

This is TOTALLY genius.

He can stack the corpses inside the MK garrison. Decrypt enough to defend it.

And then... invade the capital of any city he liked. "Hi, just popping in with some bodies in the middle of your garrison. Decrypt! Oh look, we just invaded your capital city. Thanks! We'll stack the bodies back in MK and move on to the next capital. Bye!"

It also defends him against the Carnymancers trying to attack him, and he can also bring everyone home and raze Jetstone to turn Gobwin Knob back into the capital and travel back there for free, and, and....

Wow, I'm impressed. He's totally breaking the Magic Kingdom's convenience mechanics.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby fjolnir » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:44 am

He only breaks the mechanics if he can get another pyramid built at the GK end quickly.
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