Talk:Gobwin Knob

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[edit] Distance to Transylvito

It took one day for Stanley to collect his dwagons from the siege raids, and leave GK. It took one more day to reach the trap hex and get turned back. It took Transylvito one day to reach the trap hex.

Maximum: Siege raid is close to GK. Trap Hex is another nearly full day's dwagon ride. Doombats moved maximum to reach trap hex. This makes it 2-3 days to reach transylvito. Use 55, the slowest known speed of a dwagon (Stanley took them all, so was limited to the slowest), which is 55 from Klog 6. 55x3 = 165 hexes.

Minimum: Siege raids were far from GK. Stanley did not return to GK in one day, so trap Hex is at least 1/2 day dwagon flight. Doombats fly short distance to trap hex. This makes it a 1/2 day flight to Transylvito. It might be shorter, if Transylvito were between GK and the trap, but that would force Stanley to divert. With the same 55 move, that's 28 hexes.

The slowest dwagon is probably much less than 55. Every hex movement slower puts Transylviot 3 hexes closer.

If it helps, summer update#12 has just stated it takes a Transylvito warlord three turns to transit from the choke hex to their capital. Apparently a high move gwiffon could do it in two.

Probable: Transylvito would also be a lot more worried about Stanley if he were less than 1 day's dwagon flight away. Stanley could hit and run their capital at will, even if it were just his fastest dwagons. Transylvito is probably more than 1 dwagon flight but less than a dwagon flight plus 1 vampire flight away from GK. This would make a dwagon flight have to sit in the field vulnerable to being seen by the doombats, and hit by the vampires before reaching Transylvito on a flat out assault. So 57-90 hexes. --Kreistor 20:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Distance to Faq

It seems Faq is 26 hexes (or perhaps a little more) due west of Gobwin Knob. Stanley heads west to Faq and later returns east. Jillian wanted all fliers with 26+ movement to catch up to Stanley.

[edit] Splitting into two pages?

If I may be so bold, I would suggest top split this page into Gobwin Knob (Faction) and Gobwin Knob (City). Currently both things are the same, but this will change with more information and with future expansion of the faction. One point is the popping of units; GK (city) can pop special units like dwagons, but not gwiffonshttp://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Word_of_the_Titans#6051503. Natural allies pop via moneymancy, this has also nothing to do with the city, but with the faction. At least I would propose to split the article into two halves: one for the faction and one for the city. --Welf von Ehrwald 08:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

From the WoT link, the impression I get is that natural allies have their own leadership and that leadership can pop new units with money. It is unclear if Gobwins are still natural allies to the Gobwin Knob side (they may all be dead). Ofc, maybe Stanley can pop more of them by paying money, even if they are all dead. Also, the GK side is actually called the plaid, so there is already a potential page. However, it currently redirects here. --Raphfrk 08:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
No, plaid is the tribe. Faction and tribe are not the same. According to Parson's klog tribe is more of an "cultural thing". --Welf von Ehrwald 13:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I thought about it a while ago, but at that moment it was not so important (not sure if it is so critical now). Anyway, I do not recall Stanley's side to be referred to as Gobwin Knob. So far, any time "Goblin Knob" is mentioned, it refers to the city. So Plaid may very well be the "official" name, like Jetstone. We just don't know.
By the way, Faq is a similar story - it is a side and location as well. -- Muzzafar 15:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
My mistake. When Parson is calling CharlieErf-b1-p89Same-site.PNG he introduces himself as "Parson Gotti, Lord Hamster. Chief Warlord to Stanley the Tool, of Gobwin Knob." -- Muzzafar 13:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Plaid Tribe should be a redirect. Plaid tribe should almost be a stub, there's so little to go on, but it's wholly different from the side, Gobwin Knob. Stanley, Sizemore, and maybe 200 guys are Plaid Tribe, but there's a whole lot more to Gobwin Knob. Plus, let's say Stanley goes crazy and names Parson or Wanda his Heir, and dies. They'd still be Gobwin Knob, but Gobwin Knob would now have no ties to the Plaid Tribe beyond Sizemore. - Commander I. Heartly Noah June 4, 2009, 10:57 (UTC)

[edit] Lava lake

"Lava Lake -- Technically inside Outer Walls, only flying units may cross the lake, and they may not end turn in this zone or croak. "

I don't think this is correct. The comment is that flying units may cross the lake. They won't croak if they end turn in the hex, they just aren't allowed land on the lake. --Raphfrk 12:15, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
If you've got something better for what "landing on the lake" means, feel free. I scratched my head to try to figure out why that was important for a long time, because technically, it's otherwise identical to old Airspace rules. --Kreistor 17:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I think it just means that they can't walk on the surface. It could also mean that they must fly reasonably high and take damage if they get to close to the heat. In normal hexes, a flying unit that is disabled/loses the ability to fly will fall to the ground and can survive. However, in the lava lake hex, any unit that loses the ability to fly croaks on contact with the lava. It is unclear how normal lakes work though. If units cannot swim, then you are right, the rule for a normal lake is the same. I think many units can probably thread water. --Raphfrk 19:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah. Guess you're right. We do see Dwagons intending to taking a night over a lake, and Jillian&Ansom definitely spend the night in the air. I suppose it's not certain. I'll take it out. It ight have a little support, but there's counter-evidence, too, so I'll play it safe. --Kreistor 19:29, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Forces

I had originally assumed that all the piker, stabber, and archer-class infantry in GK were the remaining Plaid (Men) troops. However, there are 135, 48, and 32 of these, making 215. But Wanda had said there were fewer than 200 living men remaining in the force. So, either they popped 15+ men in a few turns, or some of these aren't Men. Since the Gobwins have their own listing (fighters), I guess some of them are Hobgobwins (who have 15 Knights listed, but those are supposed to be 'drawn from all units'... though that could have included all the units that had croaked in battle pre-story. Sigh. Anyway, I'd guess either the Stabber infantry or maybe parts of all 3 are Hobgobwins. Then again, didn't Parson or somebody state that their force was "mostly uncroaked?" Because there are only 200 uncroaked listed, which is significant but not even close to half. Commander I. Heartly Noah

[edit] Design of the new city

I'm having a hard time picturing what the new Gobwin Knob looks like as given in the text for Summer Update #2:

"It was no longer symmetrical, but tiered, with half of the city walls extending down around a permanent lava lake. [...] The new Gobwin Knob had a prominent and ridiculously well-defended gate, with two square towers almost as high as the new Tower of Efdup."

This may be deliberately vague by design, as perhaps the authors prefer flexibility when finalizing the design of the city for Book 2. However, I'd like some informed clarification, even where there exists no concrete information.

1) How much did the mountain itself change during this eruption? Look at this photo of Mt. St. Helens after its eruption:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MSH82_st_helens_plume_from_harrys_ridge_05-19-82.jpg

This is how I picture the mountain to currently stand, except with a lava lake in the center rather than the smoking bit.

2) Where are the tiers located? I imagine the tiers to be on the interior of the volcano, leading down to the lava lake. The problem with this is that it wouldn't be as defensible as implied in the article with all its goings-on about Constantinople. Capturing the highest tier would give the attacker the high ground to assault the next tier, and so on. So are the tiers located on the exterior instead? Which leads into my next question:

3) Where are the outer walls placed? Parson notes that they extend down around the lake which, if you look at the photo of Mt. St. Helens again, seems to imply that the walls follow the ridge of the volcano, encompassing the entirety of the inner basin (similar to the old Gobwin Knob). But if the tiers are on the outer slope of the mountain, as suggested previously, the walls would more likely extend around the outside of the mountain at a more uniform elevation, barely "extending down" at all.

4) Where are the main gate and the tower located? Update #2 makes a big deal out of the gate, and by saying that it's "almost as high" as the tower I infer that to mean that the tower is on the outer wall (as the gate must also be) in order for him to make such a comparison. But, again, if the tiers extend down around the exterior of the mountain, then the gate and tower are somewhat lower than the highest point of the city, which diminishes the tower's usefulness as air-traffic control (as noted in its own article).

All of these of course assume several things about the city that may not be true, and I would appreciate any effort to correct me. Namely, I see a contradiction with the idea that a tiered city automatically means greater defensive capability, especially with the current city as I envision it. KHAAAAAAAAAAN 17:06, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

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