Talk:Turning

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Erfworlders tend to see things in terms of magic. For example, Loyalty is a form of Natural Thinkamancy. Successfully turning someone's loyalties through torture IS a form of Natural Turnamancy. And Turnamancers are probably normally given the job of torturing prisoners, if a side has a Turnamancer, because that's part of their job description. Turnamancy is what they do, after all. Many Turnamancers, like Vanna, may not really like that part of their duties, and therefore don't show the sort of enthusiasm that Wanda does. For them, 'turning prisoners' is like dealing with excrement for a Dirtamancer like Sizemore, an unpleasant but necessary part of their magical repertoire.


I think that the summer update in which Vanna turning the warlord implied that perhaps any caster, or any unit with the stomach for the work, could make a unit turn. It is implied that the work took place in the dungeon, and that "...dungeon didn't much interest Jillian. Vanna didn't really know how to play right." ( http://www.erfworld.com/2009/10/summer-updates-049/ ) perhaps alluding to Wanda's torture of Jillian during book 1, and that Jillian thought that Wanda was better at it, despite being a Croakamancer, not a Turnamancer at all. To me, this seemed to indicate that in order to turn a unit, torture is used as sort of an attack against a unit's Loyalty, rather than "turnamancy" simply because of the word "turn" being a little overused. While this would imply that Wanda could have turned Jillian, it can be pointed out that not only is Jillian higher level than Duncan Scone, and more opposed to working for Stanley against Ansom, but Wanda wanted Jillian to be out in the field, under the influence of the thinkamancy spell. I do concede that since Wanda has some talent for magics outside her discipline, it is possible that she used Turnamancy, especially since she did use an unknown scroll before the torture began. However, Stanley did say, when asked about Wanda's 'hobbies' "Torture and interrogation. Kid's got some talent, too." ( http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F024.jpg ) which implies that torture and interrogation might be a skill or "game mechanic" used to get information from units, or force them to turn, since Stanley is notorious for only seeing value in skills and abilities that he can use for his own purposes in the immediate future, and dismissing or insulting anything outside his tactically myopic viewpoint, alongside his repeated insistence that Wanda force Jillian to turn. Compare: Stanley's reactions to Wanda's torture of Jillian to Stanley's reactions to Parson's sense of humor a few pages later. --67.183.109.102 16:56, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest that Turnamancy is the most reliable and easy method of achieving a conversion. After all, the person we know who succeeded is a Turnamancer and the only other person assumed capable is a caster who is well known to be able to cast in several different schools of magic. Is it possible to turn someone without magic? I would guess so, (Jillian trying to get Wanda to turn, or an archon asking Jillian to turn) but you would largely be dependent on their being disloyal, or it would take a long time and delicate manipulation. Is that "natural turnamancy?" would a torture device be like a magic item? I don't know. But Vanna cranked out Duncan in short order, and he didn't seem to be very favorable to them, particularly after they pulled a trick on his side. Wanda, on the other hand, spent a long time on a person she already knew and had a relationship with, cast thinkamancy spells, and never really got Jillian to turn (she wouldn't with Stanley around). CIHN
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