Talk:Arkentool

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(Arkenhammer Associated Discipline)
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***This would seem to imply that Charlie was a warlord (rather than a Thinkamancer) before he became an overlord.  He may have also gone the Chief Warlord -> Heir -> Ruler route.  Alternatively, maybe Charlie popped as a barbarian warlord.  He doesn't seem to have a capital city, it is just a hidden fortress in the mountains.  --[[User:Raphfrk|Raphfrk]] 00:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
***This would seem to imply that Charlie was a warlord (rather than a Thinkamancer) before he became an overlord.  He may have also gone the Chief Warlord -> Heir -> Ruler route.  Alternatively, maybe Charlie popped as a barbarian warlord.  He doesn't seem to have a capital city, it is just a hidden fortress in the mountains.  --[[User:Raphfrk|Raphfrk]] 00:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
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* Of course, Stanley wasn't an overlord when he attuned - he was a Warlord and possibly heir designate at the time.
"It is not known whether there exist any Arkentoys."
"It is not known whether there exist any Arkentoys."
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OOOPS. I did not intend to alter Canon. Apologies. Already undid that. --[[User:Kreistor|Kreistor]] 17:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
OOOPS. I did not intend to alter Canon. Apologies. Already undid that. --[[User:Kreistor|Kreistor]] 17:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
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== Arkenshoes & other tools ==
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Since these shoes resemble the Ruby Slippers from the Wizard of Oz, and THOSE shoes had the power to send Dorothy back home from Oz.  What's to say that the Arkentools, alone or together, couldn't send Parson (and all of the other possibly non Erfworlders) back home to Stupidworld?[[Special:Contributions/216.185.68.30|216.185.68.30]]
== Arkenhammer Associated Discipline ==
== Arkenhammer Associated Discipline ==
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While the 'pliers arguably have no overt relationship to death or croakamancy, the 'dish could certainly be said to have a close relationship to thinkamancy, given that thinkamancy covers communications in the form of thinkagrams. This is why I edited the comment about how the appearance of the dish has no connection to its "association by effect" or whatever. [[User:DevilDan|DevilDan]]
While the 'pliers arguably have no overt relationship to death or croakamancy, the 'dish could certainly be said to have a close relationship to thinkamancy, given that thinkamancy covers communications in the form of thinkagrams. This is why I edited the comment about how the appearance of the dish has no connection to its "association by effect" or whatever. [[User:DevilDan|DevilDan]]
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I'm inclined to nuke the comment about "uniformity" entirely. We don't know anything specific about the Arkendish, beyond the statement "it provides unmatched Thinkamancy". We don't know exactly what Thinkamancy it provides, so how can we know there is any uniformity? And the Pliers have so far only done a single thing in Wanda's hands -- something that is the complete polar opposite of what they did in Ansom's hands, which isn't very uniform. --[[User:Kreistor|Kreistor]] 16:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
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I think I'd agree. On the other, hand decrypting wouldn't work on uncroaked or on the living, which are the units on which Ansom probably used the pliers. I do have a more serious concern. Why are there "associated discipline theory" sections in both the arkenhammer and arkentool pages? I think a single section would be best, located in the arkenhammer page. We can insert a link to it in the arkentool page. [[User:DevilDan|DevilDan]]
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: I second the motion to reorganize this discussion to a single page. At least to me, a ''general'' discussion of whether the Arkentools have associated magical disciplines (or, if so, whether they are all [[fate]]-aligned or not) makes the most sense on this page, linking to the longer, protracted discussion of the Arkenhammer's possible disciplines as a subsection of that page. [[User:Menlo Marseilles|Menlo Marseilles]] 18:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br>
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:Dan, I'll leave that to you. Last time I edited this subject, it turned back into the unruly mess its in now. Maybe if someone else did it, it would quiet down? Wishful thinking, I know. --[[User:Kreistor|Kreistor]] 18:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br>
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::Topics merged, link provided. This discussion was cited in the edit summary in making the decision to reorganize. Please direct complaints either here or to [[User Talk:Menlo Marseilles|my talk page]]. [[User:Menlo Marseilles|Menlo Marseilles]] 21:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
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:::Purely as a tongue-in-cheek comment by a passing fan/visitor, I would think that from the removed comment suggesting that the fourth Tool links to Dollamancy is fairly obvious.  Since the main page states that this wiki is not a wiki-wiki, but rather a Tool, it would explain the ability of it as that fourth tool to convince otherwise lifeless creatures into providing useful work/content for Erfworld. -[[Special:Contributions/68.148.30.86|68.148.30.86]] 06:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
== Arkenhammer - Flight ==
== Arkenhammer - Flight ==
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The flight using the Arkenhammer was part of an illusion created by Jake. Stanley's dwagon appeared to be croaked - but wasn't. So Jake had veiled the dwagon and made it appear that he and Stanley were escaping via the Arkenhammer.
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The flight using the Arkenhammer was part of an illusion created by Jack. Stanley's dwagon appeared to be croaked - but wasn't. So Jack had veiled the dwagon and made it appear that he and Stanley were escaping via the Arkenhammer.
The arkenhammer may enable its user to fly, but there is no evidence for it. --[[Special:Contributions/87.112.79.233|87.112.79.233]] 10:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
The arkenhammer may enable its user to fly, but there is no evidence for it. --[[Special:Contributions/87.112.79.233|87.112.79.233]] 10:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
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::Yeah, it is pretty clear in that panel that Stanley can fly using the Arkenhammer [[TBFGK 31]]. --[[User:MisterB777|MisterB777]] 18:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah, it is pretty clear in that panel that Stanley can fly using the Arkenhammer [[TBFGK 31]]. --[[User:MisterB777|MisterB777]] 18:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
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== Arken saw? ==
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Seriously, why don't I see this mentioned anywhere? Arken-shovel my foot. :P :) -[[User:Fennec|Fennec]] 01:08, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
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    Why not both? (Much as I love the Arkansas pun, I see no reason to discard the Arkenshovel) It has been said that there are four
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    ''KNOWN'' Arkentools. Knowledge of others might have been lost to antiquity, or just have been/are controlled by people who
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    find it advantageous to keep their possession secret; or they might be in some far distant corner of Erfworld that we have not observed.
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    So, why not an ArkenScrewdriver, ArkenTapemeasure, Arkenrazor (Occam's Razor anyone?), etc.
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    For all we know, there are plenty more Arkentools out there; they may just be locked away in the Arkentoolbox.
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Don't forget there is a wide world out there beyond the scope of what we've seen.  To think all the Arkentools were already neatly collected in a relatively tiny pocket of the world is strange and unlikely.
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== Alternate idea for the powers of the Tools ==
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It could be that the Arkentools magnify the Attuned's natural abilities/focused disciplines to 'unmatched' levels.  Charlie could have been a regular Thinkamancer or had some form of Natural Thinkamancy due to his/her unit type.  The Dish magnified that to insane levels, completely overshadowing whatever else Charlie had previously been able to do.  Ansom was unable to Attune to the Pliers, so all he could manage to get from them was a meager bonus to slaying stuff.  Given his character and nature, he probably didn't test the effectiveness of the Pliers out on a living unit, and so assumed they were specific to dusting Uncroaked abominations.  It may have also been giving him a small Leadership bonus.  In the hands of Wanda, the Pliers amplified her Croakamancy, making the Decrypted a version of 'unmatched Croakamancy'.
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In Stanley's hands, the Hammer may just be amplifying his natural abilities, which is not a focused discipline.  Without a focus to amplify, it simply grants a smathering of magic-like abilities in response to what Stanley wants to do.  He wanted to get to his Dwagon mount, so it assisted him by giving him flight.  Stanley wanted to smack Ceasar out of the sky, so it added a huge blast to the attack.  Stanley wanted to be a rock star to go along with his dancefighting, so the Hammer rocks out.  Stanley wanted to be stronger in combat, and the strongest unit type he knew of was the dwagons, so it allowed him to tame dwagons.
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The main limitations to them are how focused the Attuned's mind is.  If Stanely gets Croaked, and someone else Attunes to the Hammer, it may focus their abilities to unparalleled levels.  And there may be a link between the tools that makes it so that no two unit types can be bonded to any Tool at the same time -- so since Charlie is displaying unmatched Thinkamancy, no thinkamancers can Attune to a tool.  This may explain while, since Stanely was presumably a CWL at the time Ansom first wielded the Pliers, Ansom was unable to Attune.

Revision as of 20:03, 4 February 2013

"Stanley's surprise abut Wanda being attuned to the Arkenpliers not being a Warlord suggests that previously only Warlords have attuned to the Arkentools or that it was unusual for other units to do."

Well we already know that the only two people to attune were Overlords - Charlie and Stanley. Even without Charlie, Stanley would probably assume that only he, or at least someone like him, or one of his hand-picked "dashing and handsome" warlords could do it. But I don't think it needs to be speculated on. Commander I. Heartly Noah June 12 2009 15:05 (UTC)

  • "the only two people to attune"? More like the only ones we have already seen. The fourth Arkentool might be already attuned to someone, and the known Arkentools don't need to be attuned to someone for the first time. Surely it happened before in the history of Erfworld.
    • So? We don't know that. This is something that will have to wait for a big reveal.Xewleer 22:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
      • This would seem to imply that Charlie was a warlord (rather than a Thinkamancer) before he became an overlord. He may have also gone the Chief Warlord -> Heir -> Ruler route. Alternatively, maybe Charlie popped as a barbarian warlord. He doesn't seem to have a capital city, it is just a hidden fortress in the mountains. --Raphfrk 00:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Of course, Stanley wasn't an overlord when he attuned - he was a Warlord and possibly heir designate at the time.

"It is not known whether there exist any Arkentoys."

Or Arkensandwiches, Arkenbuses, or Arkenbeds. Seriously, this makes no sense and serves no purpose. It's not even funny. I'll admit, though, that I just really don't like it, so if anyone other than the guy who wrote it thinks it belongs on the page, go ahead and put it back. Commander I. Heartly Noah June 12 2009 15:05 (UTC)

OOOPS. I did not intend to alter Canon. Apologies. Already undid that. --Kreistor 17:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Contents

Arkenshoes & other tools

Since these shoes resemble the Ruby Slippers from the Wizard of Oz, and THOSE shoes had the power to send Dorothy back home from Oz. What's to say that the Arkentools, alone or together, couldn't send Parson (and all of the other possibly non Erfworlders) back home to Stupidworld?216.185.68.30

Arkenhammer Associated Discipline

Removed:

Both the Arkendish and the Arkenpliers share an additional link: their respective magic class of Eyemancy and Naughtymancy both include Motion as an element, along with two others: Stagemancy and Spookism. If the Arkenhammer uses Carnymancy as is speculated, than the fourth Arkentool could be implied to be from Dollamancy. Erf-b1-p038Same-site.PNG

Link is obviously bad. 038 is Wanda and Jillian in the torture room. So, who wants to explain this Speculative link to Carnymancy to me? Is it just, "We want them all to associate to Fate, so we picked this at random"? If so, explain why I should be ignoring the blatantly obvious Shockmancy Stanley uses on Caesar, please. Spec is cool and all, but let's not place Spec over clear and obvious evidence. It's not what you want it to be, just because the alternative is inelegant. The link to Shockmancy is clear and obvious to me. It's powerful and should not exist in a Warlord, so it has to come from somewhere. We're looking for something as powerful as Charlie's Thinkamancy and Wanda's Croakamancy. Pigeons and Walnuts ain't gonna match it. And this is Stanley we're talking about. If he had something as Powerful as either of those, he could never hold back using it anytime it was possible, despite its appropriateness. He's got Self-esteem issues and has to constantly toot his own horn and show off. Further, the association of Shockmancy with Dwagons is clear: blast and brreath weapons are eerily identical. Archons can use Thinkamancy.Decrypted are advanced Uncroaked. Another parallel. So, let's see something solid if you're going to ignore power... --Kreistor 01:34, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Ehh, I dunno, man. (The idea, as I understand it, is that the two concrete tools are motion-magic, so the others might be as well) It's a leap, but as far as believing what you want, you're not immune. I'll give you that the Arkendish = Thinkamancy and the Arkenpliers = Croakamancy, so it would be nice to assume the other tools also center around one particular type of magic, but to make that assumption is the same as assuming that they're centered around different Motion magics. It's less specific and therefore more likely, but it's the same leap. Moreover, because you believe this, you let it steer your opinion of the Arkenhammer rather than accepting all the evidence and determining that you can't make a conclusion from it yet. You're throwing out evidence as trivial, when, panel for panel, it's the best evidence you've got.
For a moment, don't cling to the belief that each Arkentool must be associated with a particular magic. Certainly, the Arkenpliers were associated with Croakamancy before and after attunement. Anti-Croakamancy and then SuperCroakamancy, but nonetheless. The Arkendish definitely has a connection to Thinkamancy (at least, in the hands of Charlie, of whom we know probably the least of any major character). The Archons can perform Thinkamancy... and Foolamancy. And probably Shockmancy or Deletionism, or something else, at minimum. At least 3 different magics. And Thinkamancy isn't even clearly the major one, if there is one. As far as the Arkenhammer - Okay, the lightning most likely is Shockmancy, that would be my guess anyway - but it's still a guess. Yeah, it looks like lightning, but what if the Archons have Shockmancy that doesn't look like lightning? Are looks enough to be sure? And yeah, it was cool, and powerful, but the hammer also tames dwagons. And transmogrifies nuts. Possibly allows flight. And who knows what else? That could be 4 different kinds of magic, plus combat. Now, maybe if a caster had attuned to it, it would have gone along with that caster's forte. Who knows? Commander I. Heartly Noah July 1, 2009, 05:02 (UTC)

While the 'pliers arguably have no overt relationship to death or croakamancy, the 'dish could certainly be said to have a close relationship to thinkamancy, given that thinkamancy covers communications in the form of thinkagrams. This is why I edited the comment about how the appearance of the dish has no connection to its "association by effect" or whatever. DevilDan

I'm inclined to nuke the comment about "uniformity" entirely. We don't know anything specific about the Arkendish, beyond the statement "it provides unmatched Thinkamancy". We don't know exactly what Thinkamancy it provides, so how can we know there is any uniformity? And the Pliers have so far only done a single thing in Wanda's hands -- something that is the complete polar opposite of what they did in Ansom's hands, which isn't very uniform. --Kreistor 16:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I think I'd agree. On the other, hand decrypting wouldn't work on uncroaked or on the living, which are the units on which Ansom probably used the pliers. I do have a more serious concern. Why are there "associated discipline theory" sections in both the arkenhammer and arkentool pages? I think a single section would be best, located in the arkenhammer page. We can insert a link to it in the arkentool page. DevilDan

I second the motion to reorganize this discussion to a single page. At least to me, a general discussion of whether the Arkentools have associated magical disciplines (or, if so, whether they are all fate-aligned or not) makes the most sense on this page, linking to the longer, protracted discussion of the Arkenhammer's possible disciplines as a subsection of that page. Menlo Marseilles 18:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Dan, I'll leave that to you. Last time I edited this subject, it turned back into the unruly mess its in now. Maybe if someone else did it, it would quiet down? Wishful thinking, I know. --Kreistor 18:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Topics merged, link provided. This discussion was cited in the edit summary in making the decision to reorganize. Please direct complaints either here or to my talk page. Menlo Marseilles 21:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Purely as a tongue-in-cheek comment by a passing fan/visitor, I would think that from the removed comment suggesting that the fourth Tool links to Dollamancy is fairly obvious. Since the main page states that this wiki is not a wiki-wiki, but rather a Tool, it would explain the ability of it as that fourth tool to convince otherwise lifeless creatures into providing useful work/content for Erfworld. -68.148.30.86 06:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Arkenhammer - Flight

The flight using the Arkenhammer was part of an illusion created by Jack. Stanley's dwagon appeared to be croaked - but wasn't. So Jack had veiled the dwagon and made it appear that he and Stanley were escaping via the Arkenhammer.

The arkenhammer may enable its user to fly, but there is no evidence for it. --87.112.79.233 10:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Page 31, panel 8: Stanley is clearing flying straight up to his dwagons, demonstrating his power to Parson. --Kreistor 14:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it is pretty clear in that panel that Stanley can fly using the Arkenhammer TBFGK 31. --MisterB777 18:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Arken saw?

Seriously, why don't I see this mentioned anywhere? Arken-shovel my foot. :P :) -Fennec 01:08, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


    Why not both? (Much as I love the Arkansas pun, I see no reason to discard the Arkenshovel) It has been said that there are four 
    KNOWN Arkentools. Knowledge of others might have been lost to antiquity, or just have been/are controlled by people who
    find it advantageous to keep their possession secret; or they might be in some far distant corner of Erfworld that we have not observed.
    So, why not an ArkenScrewdriver, ArkenTapemeasure, Arkenrazor (Occam's Razor anyone?), etc.
    For all we know, there are plenty more Arkentools out there; they may just be locked away in the Arkentoolbox.


Don't forget there is a wide world out there beyond the scope of what we've seen. To think all the Arkentools were already neatly collected in a relatively tiny pocket of the world is strange and unlikely.

Alternate idea for the powers of the Tools

It could be that the Arkentools magnify the Attuned's natural abilities/focused disciplines to 'unmatched' levels. Charlie could have been a regular Thinkamancer or had some form of Natural Thinkamancy due to his/her unit type. The Dish magnified that to insane levels, completely overshadowing whatever else Charlie had previously been able to do. Ansom was unable to Attune to the Pliers, so all he could manage to get from them was a meager bonus to slaying stuff. Given his character and nature, he probably didn't test the effectiveness of the Pliers out on a living unit, and so assumed they were specific to dusting Uncroaked abominations. It may have also been giving him a small Leadership bonus. In the hands of Wanda, the Pliers amplified her Croakamancy, making the Decrypted a version of 'unmatched Croakamancy'.

In Stanley's hands, the Hammer may just be amplifying his natural abilities, which is not a focused discipline. Without a focus to amplify, it simply grants a smathering of magic-like abilities in response to what Stanley wants to do. He wanted to get to his Dwagon mount, so it assisted him by giving him flight. Stanley wanted to smack Ceasar out of the sky, so it added a huge blast to the attack. Stanley wanted to be a rock star to go along with his dancefighting, so the Hammer rocks out. Stanley wanted to be stronger in combat, and the strongest unit type he knew of was the dwagons, so it allowed him to tame dwagons.

The main limitations to them are how focused the Attuned's mind is. If Stanely gets Croaked, and someone else Attunes to the Hammer, it may focus their abilities to unparalleled levels. And there may be a link between the tools that makes it so that no two unit types can be bonded to any Tool at the same time -- so since Charlie is displaying unmatched Thinkamancy, no thinkamancers can Attune to a tool. This may explain while, since Stanely was presumably a CWL at the time Ansom first wielded the Pliers, Ansom was unable to Attune.

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